Author Topic: In Depth Look At The Gargoyle Class  (Read 163 times)

January 11, 2017, 02:00:37 AM

Offline asig

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I am going to preface this ridiculously long post with the following: I love this shard, and obviously people aren't clamoring to play a Gargoyle en masse. While I'm taking time to write this, I don't expect changes to be made. I just wanted to get some information out there, and maybe discuss some potential solutions.

TLDR:  I did some research and spent some time as a gargoyle. The class is fun, but not currently suitable for end game situations. Below are suggestions for making it playable, if you care. Long post ahead. You have been warned!


Earlier this week a new player posted on the forums, and asked the question: 'How gimped am I for choosing gargoyle as my first character?'. There were a lot of responses to this question which ranged from helpful to inaccurate. I wanted to find out for myself, so I created one. No need for a mount? Awesomely cool avatar that can fly and does back flips in the air? Sign me up. I began collecting power scrolls and gear in earnest. Unfortunately, I quickly found out that the Gargoyle class, while playable, is incredibly under powered and not very practical in an end game environment. 

Are you 'gimped' as a gargoyle? Unequivocally, yes. Unless you're planning on role playing, you will be at a severe disadvantage. There are players who posted that 'Dante can change the ID on your gear and you'd be fine'. This is not true. Dante tried to change it for me, and it doesn't work. You get the warning: 'Gargoyles Can't Wear This'. The look of the item can change to be a Gargish item, but you still can't wear the item. As a gargoyle you are limited to artifact gear that is 'Gargoyle Only'. The artifacts are cool, but they won't come close to maxing the item caps necessary for veteran champ spawns or end game bosses. I have an end game level smithing set, but even with platinum runics, the craftable gargoyle gear can't hold a candle to the Kas or Magi Armor.

In addition to not being able to wear high end gear, there is the issue of gear slots. Here are the slots available to Humans/Elfs:

Talisman Slot, Head Slot, Earring Slot, Neck Slot, Chest Slot, Shirt Slot, Back Slot, Robe Slot, Sash Slot, Arms Slot, Hands Slot, Bracelet Slot, Ring Slot, Belt Slot, Skirt Slot, Legs Slot, Footwear Slot

From my initial testing, these are the slots gargoyles can currently wear on evo:

Earring Slot, Neck Slot, Chest Slot, Back Slot (Wings), Robe Slot, Arms Slot,  Legs Slot, Kilt Armor Slot, Bracelet Slot, Ring Slot, Footwear Slot  (talisman?)

Gargoyles can't wear as much armor as Humans or Elves, but that's not really a deal breaker. Craftable Gargoyle Armor has more resistances to make up for this, and future custom armor could make up for this as well. (more on that later).

The deal breaker is the clothing slots. Since Evo is a highly customized shard, we have the ability to use clothing with skill bonuses on them, which is very powerful. The lack of clothing or the ability to wear clothes on gargoyles is the big problem in regards to gearing parity. Note: It might be possible that gargoyles can use clothing slots, and there just aren't gargoyle-only clothes available, but I couldn't verify.

Potential solutions to this problem and a second preface: I spent my early career as a developer, and I work in the software industry. I fully realize that it is a waste of resources to make changes that aren't going to fix an actual problem, or to monetarily justify the work spent to make these changes. With that said, if there is enough interest in this type of customization, perhaps it's an opportunity. Probably not, but who knows.

OK with that out of the way, I probably have will only have 1 person maybe reading this, but whatever. I'm bored. I'll get into it:

So how do you remedy this problem? The addition of 20 custom pieces.. If Kane was reading, he probably has closed his browser. To start, perhaps there could be 1 or 2 custom gear sets, a few pieces of custom gargoyle clothes, and 2 pairs of custom gargoyle boots. The gear could be equivalent to Kas or Magi armor. Let's look at Kas Armor. The Kas Helm and Magi Hat stink for end game, lets be honest. We'll skip them. Below are some potential gear ideas.

If you add up all the properties on the Magi Chest/Legs/Arms/Hands you'd have the following:

Magery: +25
Defense Chance Increase: 5%
Dex Bonus 5
Int Bonus 25
FCR 4
FC 4
Hit Point Increase 50
Lower Mana Cost 45%
Lower Reagent Cost 70%
Mana Increase 120
Luck 100
Mana Regen 45
Stamina Regen 5
Hit Point Regen 10
Spell Damage Increase 65%

If you add up all the properties on the Kas Chest/Legs/Arms/Hands you'd have the following:

Tactics +15
Anatomy +25
Healing +10
Str Bonus 25
Dex Bonus 10
Int Bonus 15
Damage Increase 95%
Defense Chance Increase 40%
Lower Mana Cost 10%
FCR 2
Hit Chance Increase 45%
Mana Regen 10
Spell Damage Increase 25%
Hit Point Regen 30


You could split these attributes across Gargish Chest, Gargish Kilt, Gargish Leggings, Gargish Arms, as Gargish Kas/Magi Pieces.

Since Gargoyles can't wear helms, perhaps their boots could be powerful to make up for the loss of that slot?

Gargish Mage Boots
10 mage/10 eval boots
(Travesty Mask Equivalent)

Gargish Fighting Boots
20 Throwing
15 Tactics
10 Anat
(Admiral Type Equivalent)

Wing Armor (Cloak):
Gargish Brit Dragon Cloak (20 Throwing/Tactics/Anat)
Gargish Brit Dragon Cloak (20 Mage/Eval/Inscription

Maybe the ability to pay ED to convert a Regular Ring or Bracelet into a custom Gargish Ring or Bracelet

How To  Get The Gear:
Getting the kas/mage armor could be the same process as getting kas or magi items today. One idea could be that you could clone the Magi and Kas Disciples, and make Gargoyle Versions. They would function the same way as the current kas/magi turn ins work. Drop Ore+Scroll or Sword+Axe+Skull on the Gargoyle version, and you would receive a random Gargoyle Kas or Magi piece.

Could also make a Red/Green Shirt Mirror shield Turn in NPC work the same way.. Just a thought.

Most of this stuff would also be good Donation options. The ability to have a flying character in combat would open up new play styles.
Obviously this is just a pipe dream, but it's a kinda interesting idea I think.

In total you'd need to make 20ish custom items, but could be worth it in the form of donations:

4 Gargish Kas Pieces
4 Gargish Magi Pieces
2 Gargish Wing Dragon Cloaks
2 Gargish Boots
1 Gargish Mirror Shield
1 Gargish Sin Shield
1 Gargish Red Shirt
1 Gargish +10 Mage Shirt
1 Gargish Green Shirt
1 Gargish +10 Swords Shirt
1 Gargish +10 Tactics Shirt

Thanks for reading!    :P 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:46:39 AM by Evolution »

January 11, 2017, 08:18:44 AM
Reply #1

Offline Sagemoon

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I respect your taking the time to test & think on things for Gargs, its very kind.  I enjoyed reading everything, I do have a "Butt". (lol)


It has been stated, Gargoyles are not supported here, a few times, in a few places.  It has also been mentioned the need to remove the ability to even choose one off the Character Creation Gump, but, its the lack of time/resources as to why it hasnt been done.


That said, I would like to delve into your indepth ideas for gearing.  I didnt know they had so few of gear slot options.  It would defeat the purpose to cover them up with all sorts of clothing/gear, so it would explain some of it aesthetically, but I can see how the given slots would require more attributes added per piece. 


I understand the desire to have the equivalent to Magi/Kas/etc Gear, but the randomization of the drops would become even more diluted with gear 2/3 of the player base wouldnt be interested in.  If implemented, perhaps for a gargoyle turn in, you have to turn in a 'gargoyle horn' (its an ingame item), as well as the standard turn in items. This would indicate to the game, this roll is to be off the gargoyle loot table.


The biggest issue for Evo is time/resources. We have Kane, who is amazing, but only 1 man. He does a great in bug squashing, exploit destruction, modifying what is available ingame, & adding some additions from his creative brain. I just dont see it being practical/respectful to expect him to go backwards to modify systems already playable as it is, to add another race.


Its just always a great idea to post ideas/suggestions in the SUGGESTIONS SECTION of the forums for future consideration. You never know when/if Kane will think on something & grab it to stuff into a project from his "list". 


*giggles*




January 11, 2017, 11:57:09 AM
Reply #2

Online Evolution

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Tyvm Asig for putting in the time and effort to research this.  At the moment we use a patch that had a few elements of the Gargoyle class but was incomplete 6 years ago.  We always intended to script it, but it was not well developed and the new gargoyle and elf classes were not well thought out with regards to abilities, use and gear.  After running the shard, most players did not really care for the gargoyles, in general and never became a priority.  If I could find a use or "special" purpose to invest time, money and resources in to this project I would, but currently it really does not benefit the current population as a whole.

We did try using Gargoyles for role playing and had fun with many scenarios in the gargoyle city, wars with elves etc.  We also had ideas of making gargoyle only quests that you had to "fly" to complete or gargoyle only areas, but again would be quite an undertaking for such a small group

There are now many scripts that have been made public over the years and gargoyles have been improved greatly in the higher patches.  If we end up making a new, upgraded patch for UO Evolution we will certainly include the graphics, gear and scripts.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 12:01:22 PM by Evolution »

January 11, 2017, 06:08:31 PM
Reply #3

Online Smilingdeath

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Very well written Asig.  Good ideas and thoughts.


Thought about making a Gargoyle several times, not just for Role Playing either just to see what I could do with one.


Still tempting even with the drawbacks to them that you listed in your post.

January 12, 2017, 09:58:44 AM
Reply #4

Online Sturger

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  My two cents:


  It is just an idea, but the new Item Crafting System, which Kane has proposed for the future, seems to be a good beginning piece for the Gargoyle character evolution.


  Let's remember it is the player who is choosing the final attributes, when crafting items in this new system. Though we also must remember the system is based on the characters ability to meet the skill requisites to preform the creation-- not to mention the gathering of up to 5 materials-- which might be tough for a Gargoyle character as things stand.

 
  How hard would it be to add the code for Gargoyle craftable gear, I know not. Kane and I never talked about it in our Team-Speak chats. If anyone can do it, it would be the Evolution staff, though; of that I have no doubt.


  Like I said, these are just ideas... and if nothing else, just ideas for the future. Maybe Kane will just add the foundation for Gargoyle characters to be able to craft gear using the new item crafting system. Then when the so called Gargoyle patch does come out, sometime in the future, Kane will just turn the hidden Gargoyle systems, which he created but left in the background, on.


  Who knows, the staff here is always going beyond my expectations... the sky isn't their limit anymore. Again, of that I am certain.


  Be well all,



   ---Sturger, of Skara Brea; reporter at large, EVO-Herald--

January 12, 2017, 10:23:18 PM
Reply #5

Online Expo

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Aye, very nicely written Asig. I understand that you're not criticizing any of the staff for their handling of Gargoyles, just bringing the topic back up for discussion. Some might think it a dead horse but I believe interesting things could be done with them, especially as an "Ascension" type of character. I'm not going to go further into that, as we already have plenty of things on the table. Also, you brought up something I didn't even notice which was lack of slots and raised a few good options to "fix" it. Keep up the discussions!

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